By Jen Bowen and Allison Henrich

Dr. Yen Duong is a freelance science writer based in North Carolina. This is part of the interview that Jen Bowen did with her in March 2022. Duong earned her PhD at the University of Illinois at Chicago in geometric group theory and random groups. She started her science writing journey as an AAAS Mass Media Fellow with the Raleigh News & Observer in 2018.

Can you tell me a little bit about your journey in mathematics?

I grew up in Minnesota, and at the University of Minnesota they have this incredible program which used to be called UMTYMP. I started in seventh grade. In the program, kids do all four years of high school math as middle school students; they come from all over the Minneapolis area and go to the university twice a week for math classes. After middle school, we moved to California, and I went to a public magnet school that was STEM-focused. I was the first freshman they ever had who was entering in calculus which was otherwise taken by juniors and seniors. That was the first time that math was really hard for me. In my graduating class, three of us went to Yale, three of us went to Harvard, and three people went to Stanford, so you can imagine the academic preparation was intense. Our school was full of children of immigrants, though, so I was very, very happy with my high school experience with such a diverse group of classmates.

When I got to Yale, I definitely struggled mathwise. I didn't know that you're supposed to work with other people. I didn't know how to write proofs. I think I realized how difficult the environment was when someone told me there were 11 math majors total my senior year. I think what helped me learn how much I liked math was studying abroad my junior year in the Budapest Semesters in Mathematics program.

After I graduated from Yale, I was going to do my PhD at UC Santa Barbara. It was all planned and settled. The summer beforehand in 2010, I participated in the EDGE program. And that was cool because it was actually the first time in my life (unless you count the substitute teacher in fifth grade) that I had been taught math by a woman…like in my entire life.

But after EDGE, and before I started at UCSB, my dad died unexpectedly. I was just so torn up with grief. I went off to UCSB, and it was just a mess. I hated the place. I hated how sunny it was. I hated how happy everyone was. They were so supportive of grad students, but I felt like I needed to get out of there. It was entirely me. I was not ready to be around people, and so I left.

I reapplied for grad school later. This time, I was a little smarter about it. I figured out exactly who I’d want to work with. I didn't apply to a bunch of schools—just a few—and I got into the University of Illinois Chicago. When I visited, I went out to lunch with my future advisor and his students, and it was great! It was awesome! We just clicked. Despite this, I still felt I was not quite mathematically mature enough to just dive into research. It took me a while to be ready for it.

And then what happened? I got pregnant and married! I had the baby, but as we were living as a family in Chicago, my husband was actually working in Austin. He was going to Austin for a week every month. One week, I was talking to my advisor about how much I was struggling with this situation. Something needed to change. So my advisor connected me with his friend at UT Austin, and we moved to Austin for my last two years of grad school. They were so welcoming at UT Austin, though I did not feel I was up to the caliber of the students there. Still, it was cool to be around all these people who are doing amazing things. To be a part of that community was incredible.

So now here you are, finishing grad school with a husband and a kid and a math degree. What was that like?

Actually, by the time I finished my degree, I had a husband and two kids. My husband, Mark, has a job in finance. His company was developing a presence in Charlotte, and Mark is from Charlotte and his parents are there. So, I figured, I'm just going to move my baby and toddler to Charlotte and figure out childcare, a job, and everything else when we get there.

Around that time, Trump was elected. I felt the need to do something…not research, but…something. So, I applied for the AAAS Mass Media Fellowship. I was accepted, and during the summer of 2018, I went to work for the Raleigh News & Observer. There, you have to be able to take initiative and be very independent because everyone is very busy. I thought, “Well, that's my jam!” I wrote a ton of articles—maybe 25 articles—during my time there. My first day, all I did was email people, all the universities and all the museums. I told them I was there to write about science. I gave them an open invitation, “Tell me what I should write about!” That's how I got a million story ideas. For instance, in North Carolina, they were doing a peanut allergy trial. They suggested I should write about it. So, I actually worked on that article for the entire summer. Once I got the fellowship and I was writing, I thought “Wow, this feels really right.” I learned all this math and science and had to write about it in ways that other people can understand, and I loved it.

Is there anything about the academic path you didn’t like that contributed to your decision to do something different?

Doing math research, 99% of the time, involves failure. It's like you're just constantly failing. That's just the way it is. That's what research is. When you’re doing research, you need to believe you're going to progress. You have to have a lot of faith and confidence in yourself. I just did not have that faith and confidence. It was super fun to talk about math with people, but when it came to sitting down and puzzling through a hard problem, I thought, “This isn't my jam.”

At the end of your fellowship, you wrote about not being an exemplar of a woman mathematician because you exited academia. Can you say more about that?

Yeah, I felt like that at the time. I don't think that way so much now because of a conversation I had with my friend Evelyn Lamb. I told Evelyn that I feel a little guilty because I have had so many opportunities and so much support through my math career. I did EDGE, I did an REU and Budapest Semesters in Mathematics. I had this incredible fellowship, the Mellon Mays Undergraduate Fellowship. Talking to Evelyn, I told her, “I feel like I have had all of this stuff pushing me and supporting me to become a professor. I’ve even had students tell me it meant so much to them to see someone like me doing math. It would mean so much to the community to see me advance in my academic career.” Evelyn shared that she went through the same thing, and it changed the way I thought about my experience.

What’s one major high of your position as a science writer?

Every time I get a new assignment, my favorite thing is to read about an area of science or math that I don't know. I just love hearing from people about what they do, what they're interested in, and why they're interested in it. I hope that I get to translate some of that passion that people have into words on the page for other people to read. I really enjoy it. My job is awesome. It’s so nice to be around people who are smart and passionate. It's such a gift. I feel like that's something that I had in high school and in college and grad school.

What is one thing you would have told yourself ten years ago?

I feel like a lot of grad school was sort of negative, despite all the support I got. I felt like if you weren't working, then what are you doing with your life? Shouldn't you be reading math or grading or doing something productive right now? I guess it ties back to that faith and confidence thing. You think everyone else is working really hard and working all the time. What I’ve realized is that you don’t have to follow that path. You just do your best. It’s what I tell my kids all the time, something I learned from Mr. Rogers: do your best, whatever the best is for you.