Stereotyping in Mathematics: An interview with Carol Bennett

By Allison Henrich (@KnottyAllison) and Shanise Walker

Allison Henrich

Shanise Walker

Carol Bennett

In May 2021, Allison Henrich and Shanise Walker participated in the workshop “Creating a Better Summer Experience: A DEI Workshop for REU Directors and Faculty Mentors,” organized by Pamela Harris and hosted by the Center for Minorities in the Mathematical Sciences. During the workshop, Carol Bennett, Assistant Provost for Diversity and Inclusion at Youngstown State University, spoke on “Mentoring to address stereotype threat.” Recently, Carol was interviewed by Allison and Shanise to discuss her experiences as a Black woman in STEM and her thoughts on stereotypes and their impact on the mathematical community.

Allison Henrich: We wanted to start by having you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your educational path and how you got to where you are right now as Assistant Provost.

Carol Bennett: I grew up in Indianapolis, Indiana. I come from a working-class background where I grew up with grandparents. My grandmother fueled my passion for reading. And for her, it was important that I get an education. I ended up graduating from Martin University. I was a mother. I was a caregiver to my ailing grandmother. I was a college student. And I finished with honors.

[Later, Carol enrolled in a PhD program in history with the goal of working with museums, but did not complete the program. After leaving her PhD program, Carol took academic positions in the states of Florida, Tennessee, and Missouri.]

I ended up at Truman State University. I was there for five years as Assistant Dean for Multicultural Affairs. I came into STEM because in my previous position, I was working with a lot of young women who were in STEM, and I was partnering with a mentoring program. We helped recruit and mentor students. We did a lot of social integration with students. We found out that they had negative experiences as not only women but women of color in STEM. That led me to look at Truman's STEM program to see what they are doing. How can they better service their students? I began to think that when we talk about belonging, we need to talk about intersectionality. I think my findings will be something that we can use across the board—whether it's in STEM fields, or in the School of Business—to learn how to mentor African American women, how to mentor women of color. The issues that they face are much different than those of men.

Shanise Walker: When you were in Missouri, you became interested in the mentoring process not only for Black women in STEM but also women of color. You are currently completing a doctorate in Education Leadership and Policy at the University of Missouri. Is that what helped lead you to your doctoral topic?

Carol Bennett: Yes, it did. Initially, I was going to do something on the mentoring of African American students in STEM. It started with that. In Missouri, I was going to study the LSAMP program. But then I said, what about women? I was finding literature about women, and I was talking to a couple of students who I mentored, learning about how their REUs went. One student, she just kind of vomited all this information out about how she was treated poorly. She was there to learn, and they had her washing out beakers and just doing behind-the-scenes work. She said, “That's not what I'm here for.” She eventually changed research labs. When I went to her poster presentation, another young lady from another school was talking about negative experiences related to how she was talked to. She was told that she didn't have the knowledge and the background to be in a research lab.

Allison Henrich: In your presentation in the workshop, you mentioned that you got the message that girls don't do math. Where did that message come from?

Carol Bennett: It came from school. It came from social interactions. If you are a girl and you do math, then you are labeled as a nerd and often deemed as, “not as pretty as the other girls.” I don’t know what math has to do with that, but that’s what they’d think about girls who do math. Or it’s a shock. “You’re really pretty, and you do math?” The two don’t correlate. And then sometimes it's the teachers. I have observed how teachers focus on the boys and not focus on the girls that need help when it’s math time. When you think of mathematicians, everyone talks about the men, but they don't talk about the women. Perception is everything, too. If the perception is that boys are doing math and men are mathematicians, girls don't do math.

Allison Henrich: That relates 100% to stereotype threat. You gave a really insightful talk about stereotype threat [which we summarized earlier this week in Addressing Stereotype Threat].. How has stereotype threat influenced your own relationship with math at various points in your studies?

Carol Bennett: I was doing really well in math until the sixth grade. Then I started having some issues, having some troubles. A lot of people I went to couldn’t help me. They’d say, “It’s ok. You’re a girl. You won’t need that.” I’d ask, “Why won't I need it?” We’d have a whole long conversation. I ended up, originally, as an accounting major. And when folks found out that I liked accounting, they’d say, “Black girls don't do that.” And no one could say why black girls don't do that. Or, they’d say, “You will never find a husband if he thinks you're smarter than he is. You’re going to be alone with cats.” It is that whole notion of the thing that you like—the thing that you can do well—will impact your life negatively and not positively. That's how it impacted me. So, I turned to English and the humanities and not math, although I did take math every year of my college career.

Shanise Walker: In your presentation, you discussed how mentors can address stereotype threat. We wanted to ask you, what advice do you have for students who are facing stereotype threat?

Carol Bennett: The advice I would give to students is to call it what it is. If it's from a professor, from a friend, from a staff member, explain to them what they said to you and how it made you feel. Be ready for the apology. “I didn't mean it in that way” or “I didn't know.” Some people honestly don't know. But then there are others who I feel should understand when they say something that can hurt someone. It’s not a joke. If this is an ongoing thing, I would suggest talking to the department chair or talking to a dean about the behavior. I’m not necessarily saying you should call them out and be loud, but make sure that that person is recognized for saying inappropriate things.

Allison Henrich: You gave nine tips for mentors that will help them better mentor students, avoiding stereotype threat. [Again, see Addressing Stereotype Threat.] You talked a little bit about that idea of just naming stereotype threat as a way of helping students recover from it, and that was so valuable. Aside from your advice related to stereotype threat, is there anything else that you've learned that could benefit people who are in that role of teaching math students?

Carol Bennett: A lot of times, math professors say, “We don't have a problem with stereotyping students. We don't have issues with race or gender in the classroom.” And you have to be aware that there are issues. You may not see them because of your identity. For instance, because I'm not part of the LGBT community, sometimes I don't see the issues until someone says, “Hey, Carol, look at this.” And they explain what it is. And then I say, “Now, I get it.” So, be willing to listen to not only students, but peers who are telling you that there are some things you need to be aware of.

I think the mentor-mentee relationship is reciprocal. So, as we tell students the things that they need to know, be willing for them to tell us things that we're doing wrong or the things that we need to know. Things that are not necessarily about them personally, but about the world. Because as we get older, we get far removed from some social issues. They still impact us, but we don't see it as broadly as students do. And always be sympathetic to students, don’t try to be a mother or father, but just listen to them. Sometimes that's all they need from you is to listen.

Allison Henrich: That's great advice. Thank you so much for talking with us!

Allison Henrich is a Professor of Mathematics at Seattle University. She divides her time between math-ing and spending time with her two little ones.

Shanise Walker is an Assistant Professor of Mathematics at the University of Wisconsin Eau Claire. When she is not doing math, Shanise likes to try out new vegan recipes.